Vice Presidential Profile: Hillary Clinton (Sen-NY)

This is the twelfth and final entry in our series of profiles regarding Barack Obama's most likely candidates for the vice presidential nomination.  You can view our previous entires here.  Come back next week as we take a detailed look at the possible candidates for an Obama cabinet.  Your favorite candidates that did not appear in our two week long series here, may very well show up in our cabinet profiles.  Tomorrow I will boil down all that we have learned and make my predictions.  Don't forget to vote in our poll.

Hillary Clinton: former first lady and current senator from New York.  Is she on Obama's short list?  Frankly, none of us know, but given how close she managed to keep this primary season, and the fervency of her supporters, no list of possible vice presidential candidates is complete without her.  George Stephanopoulos described an Obama/Clinton pairing as "a dream ticket."  But many Obama supporters consider it a nightmare.  Before we render judgment, let's look at the strengths she brings to an Obama campaign, as well as those qualities which cause us deep concern.

More below the fold...

Sen. Clinton came into office in 2000, besting her opponent Rick Lazio by twelve points (55-43).  She gained support between her first election and her re-election in 2006, which she won by more than thirty points.   In her time in office, Clinton has built solid constituencies, gaining the approval of 68% of Hispanic voters according to an April SUSA poll.  She also polls strongly among women of whom better than 60% support her.  However, her standings among various political ideologies underscore Hillary's negatives: she recieves only 33% support among conservatives, while splitting independents (50 percent approval vs. 48 percent disapporval), and receiving 59% of moderates.  She has the highest negatives of any candidate in the race with 40% of voters disapproving of her.

The argument most commonly made against her negatives is that after eight years as First Lady and eight years as senator, Hillary Clinton's negatives are as high as they will ever be.  Given just how high they are, I'm not going to dispute this.  Moving forward, she polls better than Obama in Pennsylvania and Ohio, where Obama is statically tied with McCain.  She leads by roughly ten ponts in both Pennsylvania and Ohio, though she loses by about the same margin in Virginia.  In Virginia, Obama performs better than Clinton while still losing to McCain.

Needless to say, Clinton is strong on nearly every issue a progressive might care about.  She supports lifting the ban on stem cell research in order to allow scientists to find new cures for devestating diseases.  She supports programs which encourage adoption over abortion.  She voted no on an amendment to ban flag burning.  Regarding crime, she believes mandatory sentence laws have been used too often and are detrimental to the pursuit of true justice.  She believes in a cap-and-trade system to control pollution.  I personally favor a simple tax system on emissions, which the CBO has demonstrated are far more effective at reducing pollution, but Clinton's proposal for a $5 billion investment in alternative energy is nothing to scoff at.

Given the closeness of this primary, Clinton offers an Obama ticket normous advantages.  She's popular among working class whites, especially those living in the Appalachian mountains.  She has the advantages of putting Ohio and Pennsylvania well within Obama's grasp. While nearly a third of her supporters claim they will vote for McCain should Clinton not appear on the ticket, it's likely that the current primary race is causing Clinton supporters to voice support for McCain.  History suggests that they will not follow through on their threats in November. A substantial number of McCain voters claimed they wouldn't vote for Bush in the 2000 election, but their threats did not come to pass.

So, what are the negatives of a Clinton vice presidency?  First, it's difficult to imagine her taking a back seat to an Obama adminstration, especialy considering that there would be a former president by her side.  She does gain the support of women and Hispanics, but there may be another candidate who can perform just as well in these demographics (see Janet Napolitano, Brian Schweitzer, and Bill Richardson).  At times, she has suggested that Obama has yet to reach the threshold for the presidency. She's also bound to energize a currently weakened Republican base in a way that no other candidate could.

While Hillary Clinton looks good to those who wish to see a "unity ticket," Obama also must select a vice president who can be counted on to support his campaign and his message.  Despite Clinton's strengths on most progressive issues, it is difficult to imagine she has the discipline to fall in line behind an Obama campaign.  Moreover, her refusal to admit any mistake regarding her votes on the Iraq war cuts against Obama's theme of judgment.  It is difficult for me to imagine Obama selecting a candidate who not only voted to authorize the use of military force against, but has since refused to admit the failings of their decision.  I believe Clinton will make a concerted effort on Obama's behalf this fall, but it will be as a surrogate, not as a vice president.

UPDATE: It has been brought to my attention that Clinton has expressed regret over her Iraq vote (see comments thread). That said, her campaign in general pretty well guarantees she won't receive the VP nod.



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by Big Blue on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:39:26 AM EST

Re: Vice Presidential Profile: Hillary Clinton (Se (2.00 / 4)

Moreover, her refusal to admit any mistake regarding her votes on the Iraq war cuts against Obama's theme of judgment.  

she did admit to it.  Please stop spreading this lie

The policy differences between Obama and Hillary can't even fill up one 8 x 11 piece of paper.  Hillary has proven to be a team player and I think that if Obama chooses her, he has made a wise choice.  She would only strengthen his administration.


by colebiancardi on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:40:54 AM EST

No she didn't (2.00 / 1)

she says that if she knew then what she knows now she would have voted against it.  That's not the same thing as admitting it was a mistake at the time.


by JJE on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:52:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Vice Presidential Profile: Hillary Clinton (Se (none / 0)

she did admit to it. Please stop spreading this lie.
I must of missed it. Can you elaborate please?
by Zueda on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:54:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Vice Presidential Profile: Hillary Clinton (Se (2.00 / 1)

She said in one of the debates that if she could take back one thing, it would be her AUMF vote.  I don't know how much clearer it gets than that.


by mikes101 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:59:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

that's just saying hindsight is 20/20 (2.00 / 2)

it's not the same as saying "I made a mistake at the time."


by JJE on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:06:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: that's just saying hindsight is 20/20 (none / 0)

Russert asked the question about mistakes.  That was her answer.

Pretty f'ing clear.


by colebiancardi on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:25:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clearly spin you mean. (none / 0)

Again: "Yes, it was a mistake.  I should have known Bush would screw it up." vs. "Well, if I had known Bush would screw it up, I obviously wouldn't have voted for it."

The first is admitting a mistake.  The second is making excuses.


by JJE on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:28:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: that's just saying hindsight is 20/20 (2.00 / 1)

I dont see why this matters. I've always thought this "She won't apologize" was BS from the Obama supporters. I am sure if she actually did this, they wouldn't like her any better. Just a talking point.


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:28:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She doesn't have to apologize (none / 0)

she should just admit her decision was bad ex ante, rather than post facto.  The spinning just adds insult to injury.


by JJE on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:35:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: that's just saying hindsight is 20/20 (none / 0)

That's what acknowledging a mistake usually involves. If thinks work out well, you tend not to view them as mistakes.


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:25:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No it isn't (none / 0)

Admitting a mistake is saying that you were wrong even given what you knew at the time.  Clinton is rationalizing it.

She doesn't seem to understand how disappointing this continued spin and lack of accountability is for the roughly 30% of us who knew it was a bad mistake at the time, not just with the benefit of hindsight.  

This Kerry-esque spin didn't work against Bush and it wouldn't work against McCain.


by JJE on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:33:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No it isn't (none / 0)

Actually,  McCain is using exactly the same spin as Hillary.  Bush screwed up, McCain says he told Bush his initial strategy was fcked.  McCain's spin is that Bush screwed it up, but the war was the right thing to do.

It's on more recent votes that McCain will go after both Hillary and Obama.  His current spin is the surge is working, and McCain was hot on the surge.  By November, it will be the surge worked.

At that point, McCain will be saying that Obama would have had us surrender before we even started this road to glorious victory.  His attack against Hillary would not bemuch different.  If she'd admitted she was wrong, then McCain would be after her for flip flopping, in addition to being wrong on the surge.  Since the initial vote, Obama and Hillary have voted about the same, and McCain will attack them much the same.

When Obama says I was always right about the war, McCain will be saying you were wrong about the war from day 1.  The media will be cheering, as it is still going with the 'surge worked' story.  

It's very fortunate for Obama that it will be the economy as the number one issue in November, and he will be right on that and McCain will be wrong.


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:39:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't think (none / 0)

"the surge is working" is effective.  They have been saying that for a year, and there has been little political progress.  I don't see the media endorsing that.  They have accurately noted a decrease in violence but a lack of political progress.  I don't think Iraq will be a good issue for McCain.

He can't blame Bush without pissing off the dead-enders, and Obama can just point out that only a fool would have trusted Bush to execute the war competently in the first place.


by JJE on Thu May 29, 2008 at 05:44:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Vice Presidential Profile: Hillary Clinton (Se (2.00 / 2)

she did admit to it.  Please stop spreading this lie

Then you should have no trouble at all finding a link.

The policy differences between Obama and Hillary can't even fill up one 8 x 11 piece of paper.

That's not true.  While they agree on the basic framework of 95% of their platforms, the other 5% is the crux of the matter.

That 5% is ethical, open, transparent government.  I think it's the key to getting any other reform passed - the idea that when legislators and executives are doing the people's business, the people have a right to see what's going on.  Obama's ethics and technology plans work hand-in-hand to ensure that the people can always see what's going on - who's doing favors for whom and who's doing the people's business.

This ensures that there are no more closed-door negotiations involving corporate lobbyists on things like health care or energy.  Lawmakers will have to be less corrupt, because their corruption will be exposed to the light in a way that it hasn't ever been before.  That's the crux of Obama's ethics and open government plans - to ensure that the people's employees are seeing to the people's business and the people's best interests.

I find Hillary Clinton's proposals in this regard very much wanting.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:04:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Vice Presidential Profile: Hillary Clinton (Se (2.00 / 1)

RUSSERT: Before you go, each of you have talked about your careers in public service. Looking back through them, is there any words or vote that you'd like to take back?

Senator Clinton?

CLINTON: Well, obviously, I've said many times that, although my vote on the 2002 authorization regarding Iraq was a sincere vote, I would not have voted that way again.

I would certainly, as president, never have taken us to war in Iraq. And I regret deeply that President Bush waged a preemptive war, which I warned against and said I disagreed with.

But I think that this election has to be about the future. It has to be about what we will do now, how we will deal with what we're going to inherit.

You know, we've just been talking about Russia. We could have gone around the world. We could have gone to Latin America and talked about, you know, the retreat from democracy. We could have talked about Africa and the failure to end the genocide in Darfur.

We could have gone on to talk about the challenge that China faces and the Middle East, which is deteriorating under the pressures of Hamas, Hezbollah, and the interference that is putting Israel's security at stake.

We could have done an entire program, Tim, on what we will inherit from George Bush.

And what I believe is that my experience and my unique qualifications on both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue equip me to handle with the problems of today and tomorrow and to be prepared to make those tough decisions in dealing with Putin and others, because we have so much work to do, and we don't have much time to try to make up for our losses.

RUSSERT: But to be clear, you'd like to have your vote back?

CLINTON: Absolutely. I've said that many times.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/15604/


by colebiancardi on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:26:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Vice Presidential Profile: Hillary Clinton (Se (none / 0)

Fair enough.  Thank you.


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by mistersite on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:26:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Vice Presidential Profile: Hillary Clinton (Se (none / 0)

Oh, one more thing:

Hillary has proven to be a team player

I think the next two weeks will prove whether or not this is the case.  She can demonstrate that she's a team player by not taking the nomination fight to the convention (almost certainly ensuring electoral disaster) and, if enough superdelegates pledge support to Obama to put him over (as I expect they will), by conceding not only that he won, but that he won fair and square.

I'd like to think she'll do that, but in my darker moments I'm not so sure.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:07:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Vice Presidential Profile: Hillary Clinton (Se (none / 0)

Team Player ?
Only when it's her own team. The Clintons haven't played second fiddle to anybody since 1992. It's hard to see both of them taking orders from the upstart that spolied the grand scheme of things.
Besides if he pickes her as veep and wins, her next shot is 2016 and that is probably unaccepatable to her.
It is in Hillary Clintons best political interest that Barack loses in the fall. It's also  in her interest that she not be on the ticket so she can make the claim in 2012 that the Democrats should have voted for her in 2008.
With these kind of incentives, why would Obama want her on his ticket when things work out better for her if the ticket fails?
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by xodus1914 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:26:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think she is probably on the short list (2.00 / 1)

unless she makes a "We all remember November of 1963 when. . . " statement.


by rf7777 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:44:01 AM EST

It would be a move from weakness (none / 0)

It just doesn't fit the Obama campaign's M.O.

To be bullied into putting Hillary on the ticket would be to lend credence to all the negative stuff being sold by her campaign about Obama.  

They've overplayed their hand in a double reverse ironyorama.

They attacked him hard enough and angered Hillary's supporters enough to give the impression (to some) that he can't win without her.  

But by going along with that and putting her on the ticket, he would actually be weakening his own image over all.  To the Independents who outnumber angry Hillary supporters by a wide margin, it would be a sign that Obama doesn't offer anything new if he caved to that kind of cheap brinksmanship.  

If he acts like he has acted throughout his entire adult life he's going to call their bluff and put someone else on the ticket.  

I've heard he's a good poker player too.  


by Sun Dog on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:12:23 PM EST

Re: It would be a move from weakness (2.00 / 1)

I've heard he's a good poker player too.
I have heard that as well.

Good analysis. Hillary didn't switch into Veep mode until it was too late. Romney and Hucky got out early enough to where they are legitimate contenders, because they didn't bloody up McCain too bad.
Hillary went toe-to-toe with Obama (even when she knew she lost) and then expects a spot on the ticket ?
The winndr 'needs' the loser in primaries, but not that much.


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:31:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It would be a move from weakness (none / 0)

Actually, I've heard he's a very risk averse poker player.  He's a small bid guy. He neither wins nor loses large. That was part of the local color interviews in the Obama series the Chicago Tribune did.

So I guess that he will go with whichever VP choice he feels is the lesser risk of losing the general election.

That is of course, his call.

BTW, at this point, no one knows how many Hillary supporters will not be willing to support Obama in November, and how many there are will depend very much on what both McCain and Obama do between now and then.

Unfortunately, the group 'Hillary supporters' is not all that well characterized a group, other than that there are relatively few African Americans among them.  There are considerably more independents in there than you might think.  I know one ex Naderite, 2 Libertarians who don't like Bob Barr & hated Donnie McClurkin, one plain Independent who lives near Chicago and hates Chicago politics, 3 engineers who like teh wonkishness and are definitely centrist/Independent, 2 old Republican woman etc.

Based on this focus group, if you wanted my best crystal ball on it, if McCain picks Huckabee he's toast. All of them hate Huckabee, and that would overcome all other considerations.  For the 2 Libertarians, that's one of the few situations where they will vote for Obama.

If Obama picks Hillary, he's got all but the WV lady and the Chicago lady & the 2 Libertarians won't actively vote for or campaign for McCain which they would do otherwise. (about 80%).  If he attacks McCain on his age in an ageist way, and if his supporters attack on age, he's definitely lost all the old people in the group.

Other VP choices would also influence how these people vote.  Perhaps the worst choice would be Webb.  Most of these people really hated Reagan, and Webb was in the Reagan administration.  The war is not the major concern for any of them (and that would be Webb's strong point).  They also don't like his insulting Bush.  It wasn't presidential.  (That doesn't mean they like Bush.  None of them do.  They just don't think it's appropriate to swear at someone who is making small talk by asking about your child.)  And it isn't presidential.

Most of them are older, and their beef with Obama is lack of experience.  Choices for VP that some of them liked other than Hillary were Biden, Dodd, and Boxer.


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:09:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It would be a move from weakness (none / 0)

Very insightful analysis. What are your opinions on Evan Bayah? Does anybody in your sample group  buy into the 'He must pick somebody from her camp'   theory?


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 01:10:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Vice Presidential Profile: Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

After Hillary's comment about the assasination of RJK, I don't think she will be asked to be Obama's VP.  What is with McBush wanting Obama to go to Iraq?  After Hillary's assasination comment, it seems highly suspicious.


by Spanky on Thu May 29, 2008 at 01:09:12 PM EST


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